People in Insurance: Changing the Conversation

078: Communication and Marketing with Michelle Leach and Verity Blair, co-founders of the Insurance Marketers Group (IMG)

Is your organisation using its marketing department as well as it could, or should? Are you unsure how marketing can improve sales in an industry so reliant on face-to-face contact?

In this episode, we’re thrilled to be speaking with Michelle Leach and Verity Blair, co-founders of the Insurance Marketers Group (IMG). The organisation was created in 2010 in order to give insurance marketing professionals the opportunity to meet face to face, discuss ideas, network, and hear from presenters on various topics. In conversation with Boston Tullis’ Sarah Myerscough, they explain how insurance marketing is generally an undervalued and underappreciated element within insurance organisations, and the various efforts being made by the IMG to alter this perception.

 

Quote of the Episode

“Businesses now understand that it's vital to put the customer at the centre of everything that they do, and that's where marketing comes in. That's where we can influence, where we can share data, where we can really help a business put the client at the centre of everything that it does.”

The role of the insurer has expanded significantly over the last decade, from a policy provider above all else to a communicator and educator, who can offer support and advice to their clients. As customers expect different things from their insurance providers, and customer satisfaction becomes the very centre of their strategies, marketers can offer a wealth of services to boost communication between insurers, brokers, and clients.

 

Key Takeaways

At Boston Tullis, our primary aim is less to do with clinical, sales-oriented marketing, and more interested in improving communication between customers and insurance providers. The pandemic illustrated that marketing can be highly strategic in securing effective communication between these groups via digital means, given that insurance is typically geared towards face-to-face, personal interaction. This is further accentuated by the ever-increasing importance of data, which can empower businesses to understand their markets better, and how to differentiate themselves effectively in their messaging to customers.

However, while data has pivoted insurance businesses’ ability to achieve ROI from their marketing strategies, there remain aspects of marketing that are intangible, such as the extent to which a particular social media campaign, for example, influenced customers. Perhaps the reason why marketing is so underappreciated, particularly in the insurance industry, is due to this inability to directly correlate improved sales with particular marketing manoeuvres.

Thus, the IMG’s mission is to see marketing represented at board level in every organisation across insurance. In order to raise the profile of marketing in the insurance industry and offer opportunities for up-and-coming marketers, the organisation annually gives a Young Marketer of the Year Award. Additionally, this year, the IMG is also introducing a Marketing Team of the Year Award. The link for nominations, open to anyone you know involved in insurance marketing, which may include yourself, is below. You need not be an IMG member to nominate someone, and anyone working in insurance marketing is eligible to receive either award.

One of the best aspects of the insurance industry is the opportunities for collaboration and communication between peers. If you are an insurance marketer, or you have a marketing department, consider joining the IMG, which can unite you with peers from other companies, enabling you to discuss ideas and evaluate challenges you may be facing. The link to register as a member is below.

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

‘Marketing dovetails with sales and that can really make a difference to your output.’

‘Somebody once described [insurance marketing] to me as the pipe work of the business: how far you turn the tap is the sales that come out.’

“Data is really empowering businesses to understand their customer better, to understand what messaging is working, and how you're able to differentiate yourself effectively, and kind of cut through the noise.”

“We've [the IMG] created a mission that we stand behind, and that is to see marketing represented at board level in every organisation across insurance. Because if you're at the table when the strategy is set, then that makes life so much easier for marketing teams.”

 

Resources

Website: https://imghub.co.uk/

Nominate yourself or someone you know for an IMG Marketing Award: https://imghub.co.uk/awards/

Register to become an IMG member: https://imghub.co.uk/register/

About the Guest

Verity Blair is a co-founder of the Insurance Marketers Group. Her background is primarily in sales, and she is currently the Vice President of Sales at Lextegrity, which provides enterprise data analytics and automation software for compliance and audit professionals at leading global companies.

Verity’s LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/verity-blair-60127411/

Contact Details: verity@imghub.co.uk

Michelle Leach is an award-winning marketing professional who has worked in the insurance and financial services sector for over 25 years. A co-founder of the Insurance Marketers Group, she is also a Senior Marketing Business Partner at QBE Europe.

Michelle’s LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-leach/

Contact Details: michelle@imghub.co.uk

 

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. Boston Tullis works with insurance brokers to offer solutions to business development ceilings, particularly in the rapidly developing fields of video marketing and thought leadership.

Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/  

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation 

 

 

077: Capacity is Key with Michael Keating - MGAA

Are you concerned about the hardening of capacity? Would you like to develop current or new relationships with MGAs or insurers?

In this episode, we’re thrilled to be speaking with Michael Keating, CEO of the Managing General Agents’ Association, about the upcoming MGAA Capacity Exchange. The event is being held at the Hilton DoubleTree in London, on September 14^th. As one of the MGAA’s flagship annual events, it offers a fantastic opportunity for MGAs and insurers alike to meet, and extend pre-existing relationships or enable new ones to flourish.

 

Quote of the Episode

“Any MGA will always tell you that capacity is the number one key pillar that their business is centred round. Frankly, if you haven't got capacity as an MGA, you have no business. So, it cannot be any more important than that.”

Capacity, for Michael Keating, is the most fundamental element of any MGA. As such, the importance of forming partnerships around capacity cannot be understated, and thus the opportunity afforded by the MGAA Capacity Exchange should not be turned down. In a period where capacity is hardening exponentially, such relationships can be extremely productive for both insurers and MGAs.

 

Key Takeaways

The MGAA Capacity Exchange invites insurers to exhibit and MGAs to attend, in a speed-dating-style environment. MGAs are enabled to speak to different insurers, and engage in productive conversations about their risk appetites, current market trends, and opportunities to partner up going forward. As such, it gives a great opportunity for MGAs to re-engage with insurers they already know and to discuss ideas and potential partnerships with insurers they aren’t yet familiar with.

Similarly, insurers are enabled to converse with MGAs they may not have had contact with previously, to better understand their product lines, business model and strategy, thereby enhancing networking in the MGA community as a whole.

Face-to-face contact is utterly essential in the insurance industry. For mike, it cannot be beaten or exchanged for virtual conferencing and networking. Communication is key in insurance, and the opportunity to meet and network on the basis of such a crucial element of business for insurers and MGAs alike should not be missed, particularly following a lengthy period in which such vital conversations were impossible. You can register to attend the event by clicking the link in the Resources section below.

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

“What we want to be able to do is for our MGAs and our insurers to meet and greet as many people as they possibly can. So, as a capacity exchange event, it is not for someone, effectively, to sit down with an insurer and say, ‘Right, let’s talk for the next thirty minutes, here’s our business presentation, etc. It really is a case of… ‘this is our business, this is our product line, this is what we currently do, is that within your risk appetite? Is that something you’re particularly interested in?’”

“You cannot beat face-to-face contact and networking, seeing the whites of people’s eyes, and building a strong relationship on that basis. Face-to-face is, and will always be for me, the right way to take the Capacity Exchange.”

“Fundamentally, what this capacity event provides both for insurers and MGAs is a real opportunity to have a rich conversation, albeit in a limited time span, and to identify whether you could be partners in the future.”

 

Resources

MGAA – https://www.mgaa.co.uk/

The MGAA Capacity Exchange Registration – https://www.mgaa.co.uk/events/capacity-exchange/

 

About the Guest

Michael Keating is the CEO of the Managing General Agents’ Association (MGAA), having previously held executive positions at AXA, UK General and Qlaims. Throughout his 35 years’ experience in the industry, he has worked for insurers, brokers and MGAs in both commercial and personal lines markets.

Michael's LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-keating-230b8424/

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. 

Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/ 

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation 

 

076: The BIBA Conference 2022 with Emma Chapman

Have you missed the interpersonal connections which are so integral to the insurance industry over the past two years? Are you keen to get more involved in the industry community, or to reaffirm the connections you once had prior to the pandemic?

In this episode of the Insurance Brokers’ Podcast, we are thrilled to be speaking with Emma Chapman, Head of Conference at BIBA, who is leading the team responsible for organising this year’s in-person event! In conversation with Boston Tullis’ Sarah Myerscough, she explains what attendees can look forward to at this year’s conference, what we should expect to get out of it, and the opportunities available for new brokers and young people looking to enter the industry. The BIBA Conference will be held on 11^th – 12^th May 2022 in Manchester.

 

Quote of the Episode

“Our theme this year is our insurance community. We really wanted to capture that feeling of reconnecting and coming together; the industry reuniting after all this time. BIBA is the place for that. We're proud to lead in that area and be the biggest event for the broking community in the UK.”

The past few years have undoubtedly been a transitional period for the insurance industry. Now that the country is finally beginning to recover and re-emerge from COVID regulations, this is an optimum time for the broking community to reconvene and reunite. As Emma explains throughout the episode, this year’s BIBA Conference offers an array of great networking opportunities for attendees to form new connections with other delegates, and perhaps also to bolster ties with brokers which may have been somewhat impaired by the necessity of virtual work over the course of the pandemic.

 

Key Takeaways

Big numbers are expected to attend the BIBA conference this year! In the episode, Emma notes that in 2019, 5000 brokers were in attendance, and a similar amount are expected to attend this year.

This highlights the great opportunity that this event represents to reinvigorate the brokering community which has been greatly impacted by the restrictions of the pandemic. As Emma notes, insurance is a ‘personable business’, and as such, the ability to network in person, which hasn’t been possible for so long, will be incredibly valuable this year.

The industry is only as strong as the community which constitutes it. The ability to build connections between firms through in-person interaction is the best way to sustain the strength of this community, as it will always work better with unity and personable interaction. Therefore, Emma suggests that delegates should take this year’s conference as a significant opportunity to build new connections with other brokers, or reaffirm pre-existing ones.

If you are keen to attend this year’s conference, please be sure to download the BIBA app. It will be available to download in a few weeks’ time, and will serve as your primary guide to the conference, both in navigating the floorplan and maintaining your schedule.

Additionally, a key part of this year’s conference will be the Young Broker Day. The restrictions of the past two years have been particularly difficult, Emma suggests, for young people who may have only just entered the insurance industry prior to lockdown, or indeed those who joined while the working world was primarily virtual. This is particularly difficult in an industry which is so heavily reliant on interpersonal communication. As such, Young Broker Day offers a range of networking opportunities for new industry entrants to form connections and broaden their understanding of the insurance world. Young Broker Day has also been opened out for the first time to local students, providing a fantastic opportunity for those considering a career in insurance, or even those who may not believe insurance is a viable career for them, to learn about the prospects it offers and network with prominent industry figures.

Boston Tullis’ own Sarah Myerscough will be attending this year’s conference as a reporter for BIBA! If you spot her at the event, please come and have a chat!

If you have any questions/queries about the conference, don’t hesitate to get in contact with Emma or Sarah – their LinkedIn profiles are linked below!

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

“The exhibition will have 200 plus exhibitors, they're all with their staff who are desperate to talk to people. This is quite a personable industry really, when you think about it, and to be able to do business, and get deals done, and network in-person is so important to this to the thriving of this industry.”

“What I would like people to come away with thinking is that they have made some real worthwhile, longstanding new connections, and perhaps bolstered the ones that they already had with people in the exhibition hall, whether they're insurers, or providers, or other brokers.”

“I think that the set of people that have most struggled over the two years is actually the younger generation, the ones who have just got into the industry. Maybe they're in their first job, or they got it the year before. And then suddenly, that's it, they were taken away from the office, where you learn so much from your colleagues.”

 

Resources

The Biba Conference: https://thebibaconference.org.uk/ 

 

About the Guest

Emma Chapman is the Head of Conference at BIBA (British Insurance Brokers’ Association). Having previously worked closely with BIBA as Event Manager for The Campaign Partnership, she now manages a small, in-house team responsible for the organisation of this year’s conference.

Emma’s LinkedIn Profile: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/emma-chapman-29a97610b 

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. Boston Tullis works with insurance brokers to offer solutions to business development ceilings, particularly in the rapidly developing fields of video marketing and thought leadership.

If you would like Sarah to help you develop an integrated marketing strategy, using state of the art concepts, then please book a free 20 min call via Calendly.

Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/ 

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation 

 

075: The Minefield of Contractor Liability Insurance with Dave Cahill and Steve Cox of Miller Insurance Services’ UK Construction Practice

Are you feeling overwhelmed by the immense level of practical knowledge your clients now require of you? Or do you feel confident both in your understanding of the risks facing your clients and their businesses, and in the products you have provided them with? Either way, it’s becoming increasingly apparent that clients are looking for bespoke products which fully cover them against all potential losses, particularly in niche markets such as railway-adjacent construction.

In this week’s episode, we’re very pleased to be speaking with Dave Cahill and Steve Cox of Miller Insurance’s construction branch. In conversation with Boston Tullis’ Sarah Myerscough, they discuss the staggering minefield faced by both construction firms and their respective brokers and insurers with regard to certain projects; namely those involving construction over or nearby transport links. Despite the specific focus on contractor liability insurance, the discussion in this episode can be considered microcosmic for broader market trends which brokers and insurers alike should be taking into consideration.

 

Quote of the Episode

‘You really need to know your staff when you're talking about this kind of a risk.’

When dealing with very niche, bespoke products with minimal capacity, it is essential that brokers provide insurers with all the necessary information about the particular risk facing their client. To avoid incidents such as Tesco’s extensive pay-out to Chiltern Railways after failing to secure coverage from their insurer following infrastructural damage at a supermarket construction site, clients need products that can provide watertight protection against both potential damage and non-damage. This principle needs to be undertaken across the entire insurance market. As it gradually becomes increasingly geared towards extremely niche specialisms, brokers need to be equipped with the knowledge required to perform detailed, analytical risk assessments before presenting to insurers.

 

Key Takeaways

This episode examining the 2005 case of Tesco v Constable, in which the former was denied an insurance pay-out following the collapse of a tunnel being built to accommodate the construction of a new supermarket in Gerrard’s Cross. Fortunately, no one was hurt, but the collapse caused a significant amount of damage to the track, and prevented the railway line from operating for several months. The track was the property of Network Rail, while Chiltern Railways was the train operator which had the right to use the rail infrastructure in the area under a track access agreement.

 

Prior to the start of the supermarket’s construction, Chiltern Railways demanded that Tesco enter a legal agreement that it would indemnify them for any losses arising from the project, to which the company agreed. Despite the fact that Chiltern did not own the damaged track, they sustained a substantial non-damage loss due to the closure of the line after the collapse of the tunnel. Tesco accepted that they were liable under the agreement and sought to recover the damages that they were obliged to pay under their agreement through their public liability insurance policy. This policy included a contractual liability provision. However, the insurer refused to pay, and the matter went to court, where it transpired that this particular policy provision only covered contractual liabilities that were also coexistent in tort (i.e., entailing substantial damage to property). As the damaged property did not belong to Chiltern Railways, with whom Tesco agreed the contract, the insurer could decline the claim. This forced Tesco to pay for both the damaged property and the non-damage of Chiltern’s lost business themselves.

 

This highlights the profound importance of providing clients with iron-clad policies to protect them against potential indemnity, especially if they are involved in binding liability contracts as in this case. For example, today, Network Rail insists that you provide an indemnity under an asset protection agreement. Thus, any a loss incurred during a construction project being carried out adjacent to Network Rail’s property renders the developer/contractor responsible for indemnifying Network Rail, irrespective of whether that party have been negligent or not. Indeed, in some cases, (non-)damage can occur without any mistake or failure on the developer’s behalf, but they are nonetheless bound to indemnify the rail operator. Steve and Dave give multiple examples of unexploded World War II bombs located in London by builders working on projects adjacent to Network Rail lines, which caused evacuations and train delays, for which the contracted firm was liable to pay.

 

These risks are extremely complex, as the potential for non-damage losses are so unpredictable. As such, clients working in these specialist fields require a broker that can secure an airtight insurance product to cater for these losses and the liabilities they incur.

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

“In common law, or in the tort of negligence, liabilities exist normally where one party causes a loss to a third party, and that loss is foreseeable. The test for foreseeability… is whether there’s either some sort of damage or injury.”

“When you’re intending to carry out construction activities… it's standard practice for Network Rail to insist that you provide an indemnity under what's called an Asset Protection Agreement… It says any liability arising from any loss arising from the project that's been carried out the building work… then that party must indemnify Network Rail for its losses.”

“If you are unaware of this type of sort of legal development for these types of projects, and you are the development party, you're liable. You’ll really want to be able to claim that back from your insurers, but you won't be able to, unless you are aware of this and have put the relevant insurance product in place, which does now exist as a result of these cases.”

 

“There are classic examples of cases where the developer or the contractor is not liable, hasn't done anything negligent… but because they signed a legal agreement that makes them responsible for all incidents arising from the construction project, then they're liable by virtue of the contractual indemnity.”

 

Resources

The wrong side of the tracks - rail liabilities and insurance by Dave Cahill: https://www.miller-insurance.com/News-and-insights/Latest-insights/The-wrong-side-of-the-tracks-rail-liabilities-and-insurance

Miller Insurance: https://www.miller-insurance.com/

 

About the Guest

Dave Cahill is the Head of Client Development at Miller Insurance’s construction practice, where he has worked for just over a year. He has been a construction insurance practitioner for over thirty years, initially working with clients in the construction industry before entering the London insurance market in 2002.

Dave’s LinkedIn Profile https://uk.linkedin.com/in/davecahilljlt

 

Steve Cox is head of UK construction team at Miller Insurance. He has been working in the industry for 40 years, handling contractors, subcontractors and many project insurances. He has also been the insurance broker for a train operating company, and has worked for Network Rail on accounts.

Steve’s LinkedIn Profile: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/steve-cox-29b66231

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. Boston Tullis works with insurance brokers to offer solutions to business development ceilings, particularly in the rapidly developing fields of video marketing and thought leadership.

If you would like Sarah to help you develop an integrated marketing strategy, using state of the art concepts, then please book a free 20 min call via Calendly.

Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/ 

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation 

 

 

 

074: Finding the Path of Least Resistance with Warren Bainbridge

Are you concerned about the speed of market evolution, and trying to keep up the pace? How can you boost efficiency in your acquisition of solutions for your clients? Is there any way to remain confident in your business ventures as the world remains profoundly uncertain?

In this episode of the Insurance Brokers’ Podcast, we’re very pleased to be speaking with Warren Bainbridge, Head of Wholesale and Distribution at Kingsbridge Insurance Brokers. Warren has extensive breadth of experience in the industry, spanning many different sectors and perspectives. In conversation with Boston Tullis’ Sarah Myerscough, he shares enlightening anecdotes and advice regarding changes in the distribution chain from reinsurance to consumer, how it has evolved over the past decade and how he anticipates it to develop in years to come.

 

Quote of the Episode

‘If an insurer or an MGA makes things simple or easy to do business with, then brokers will naturally gravitate to that.’

Throughout the episode, Warren frequently suggests that the ‘path of least resistance’ is often the most profitable and providential for brokers. Given the volatility and fluctuating nature of the world and its impacts on the market, he suggests that if brokers identify an opportunity with an insurer for a straightforward process from risk presentation to solution provision, they will take it. As such, insurers should endeavour to make their processes accessible and welcoming for brokers who, in turn, should always be equipped with the necessary information about their client and the risk at hand, thereby facilitating a straightforward claims-making process for every customer.

 

Key Takeaways

Over the past few years, the importance of e-trade solutions has accelerated significantly. Warren suggests that brokers and insurers alike should aim to employ this route for as much activity as possible, but maintains that certain complex solutions and larger-income risks require human intervention. Ultimately, therefore, broker and insurer efficiency is and will become increasingly integral to insurance processes in years to come.

 

However, COVID-19 threw an unexpected spanner in the works for the industry, leading to many capacities being reduced or pulled. For Warren, maintaining a sense of consistency in your business’ output is key. Yet, in times of such economic instability and unpredictability, it can be difficult to remain a sense of clear direction for your business, which in turn can affect client trust and retention.

 

How should brokers weigh up a balance between efficiency and consistency in years to come? Warren suggests that insurers and brokers should take this presiding volatility and instability into account when making future decisions, and be sensible in their actions. In doing so, you can navigate the present uncertainty with a clear path that your clients can rely on.

 

This is particularly important with regard to accelerating e-trade as Amazon (and, perhaps inevitably, Google and other Big Tech companies) begin to venture into insurance solutions. Warren suggests that clients will naturally gravitate to such companies due to their knowledge of the brand and what they stand for. As such, you need to make sure that you can stand out in the market.

 

Specialism will prove to be key in this respect. Warren suggests that broker and insurer profitability will increasingly be found in niche sectors and markets with minimal competition, where premium rates can be charged due to the expertise you can potentially provide in that unique space.

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

“There's been a lot of drive for e-trade, but there's only so much insurance business you can e-trade. There's complexity that needs human intervention. So, you'll always have the need for that, and those insurers that have maintain that ‘Open for business, here to help’ sort of attitude have prospered. Those that have made life difficult have not.”

‘If an insurer or an MGA makes things simple or easy to do business with, then brokers will naturally gravitate to that.’

“I think those insurers or those brokers that have got specialisms can win the day, because I think you can demonstrate more expertise if you've got a specialism and therefore, it reduces the competition. There's less expertise out there in particular niches.”

“I think those [insurers] that are clear with their communication and their strategy… brokers and clients will, will naturally gravitate to. Although there is a lot of [uncertainty] in the market, hopefully insurers can deliver some, some sort of consistent strategy through all of that.”

 

Resources

Kingsbridge Insurance Brokers: https://www.kibl.co.uk/ 

About the Guest

Warren Bainbridge has worked in the insurance industry since he was 15. Initially, he worked in high street broking for nine nears, before joining Provincial in 1993 which eventually merged with AXA in 1996, where he worked for 18 years in total in various roles. Since then, Warren has worked for NIG Commercial, Chubb and British Engineering Services, each for a few years. In November 2021, he joined Kingsbridge Insurance Brokers as the Head of Wholesale and Distribution.

Warren’s LinkedIn Profile: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/warren-bainbridge-7016337

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. Boston Tullis works with insurance brokers to offer solutions to business development ceilings, particularly in the rapidly developing fields of video marketing and thought leadership.

If you would like Sarah to help you develop an integrated marketing strategy, using state of the art concepts, then please book a free 20 min call via Calendly.

 

Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/ 

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation 

 

 

073: The significance of accurately presenting risk to insurers with Francis Carroll, Adrian Tate, and Robert Lloyd, Ecclesiastical Regional Directors

Do you ever feel unconfident in your ability to present risks to insurers? Have you made several risk presentations, but not heard back from the insurer? Are you keen to learn how to boost your presentation skills?

In this episode, we’re very excited to have three guests: the Regional Directors of Ecclesiastical Insurance, Francis Carroll, Adrian Tate, and Robert Lloyd. They discuss the profound significance of accurately presenting risks to insurers, both in order to secure the appropriate cover for your clients, and indeed to engage the insurer’s interest in mitigating that risk. In conversation with Boston Tullis’ Sarah Myerscough, they discuss how you can adapt your presentation practices to secure the best cover for your clients.

 

Quote of the Episode

“The more certain and confident you make an underwriter, the more they're prepared to push that rate, push those covers, and give a little bit [more] breadth of cover, because they're comfortable with the risk.”

Insurance as an industry thrives upon information above all else. If an underwriter lacks sufficient information in order to make a balanced determination about a risk, they will not feel comfortable in offering substantial cover to one of your clients. Thus, prior to presenting a risk to an insurer, ensure that you have a firm grasp not only on a sufficiently detailed amount of information pertaining to the risk at hand, but also that you understand why that detail will be important to the underwriter. As Ade explains, if the underwriter can intimately understand the client’s current business practices, and how they’re mitigating losses, the underwriter will feel more confidence in offering cover that is satisfactory to all parties.

 

Key Takeaways

Given the current inundation of the market, insurers are swamped with potential risks to consider and review. In order to stand out from the crowd, you should endeavour to create a sense of emotional engagement with the insurer in your presentation, emphasising why yours is a worthwhile risk for them to follow up on. Ade notes that many brokers use software houses which tend to produce uniform presentations, and don’t necessarily provide the level of detail required for underwriting risks. As such, the presentations generated by these digital portals do not always enable underwriters to react and perform efficiently in relation to the risk at hand.

To save both yourself and the insurer time, ensure that they would be appropriate for covering the risk you and your client are dealing with. Many insurers, like Ecclesiastical, have particular specialisms, and simply will not respond to risks which do not adhere to those parameters. If you are unsure about whether your risk aligns with their specialism, Robert emphasises that you can and should directly contact the insurer, who will be more than happy to advise you.

Additionally, give the insurer some time to consider the risk you are presenting. Given the sheer volume of inquiries many insurers are currently receiving, if underwriters are not given an adequate slot of time with which to deal with the risk a broker is presented, it will inevitably be side-lined in favour of another risk that has given a more reasonable leading time. Furthermore, many insurers, including Ecclesiastical, do not merely underwrite risks, and also provide a range of other services. If they haven’t given a chance to ascertain what exactly the client needs, conversion is less likely.

In order to prevent such issues from arising, thereby saving both yourself and the insurer time, create a regular dialogue with your clients. Introduce touchpoints when a broker meets with the client and finds out information that can be communicated to the insurer, so they can determine whether their cover needs to be adjusted or updated prior to the renewal cycle. In doing so, your client will always have the most up-to-date cover, and a stronger relationship between brokers and insurers will be established.

Communication is key. If you ever have any uncertainties about the risk you are presenting, be it whether the insurer you are presenting to would be suitable for mitigating it, or if you are unsure about the amount of detailed information you should include in your presentation, get in contact with them as soon as possible.

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

“A lot of the risks are not being embraced by the insurance market like they were a couple of years ago. Therefore, there's a big job on the hands of brokers: trying to present the risk to insurers, but equally get a fair and reasonable response from insurers. Because it's very easy for insurers at the moment to say no to a lot of risks. So, this presentation idea is more important than ever.”

“It's not just about sending a presentation through and sitting there and waiting to see what happens. Actually, the best thing is to do is to get on the phone to the underwriter, get on the phone to the key relationship manager, and actually explain to them why this is a good risk for ecclesiastical to help make sure yours gets to the top of the pile.”

“The engagement with the underwriter, whatever that may be, is the most important thing… the broker needs to appeal to the underwriter he’s talking to.”

“The more information underwriter has, the more discounts, the more favourably they can look at the risk, which is ultimately what we all want… We want to write it, we want to write it competitively, and we want a good customer outcome. And if we can get more information, that makes our life easier.”

 

Resources

https://www.ecclesiastical.com/ 

 

About the Guests

Francis Carroll has over thirty years of experience in the insurance industry. He is currently Ecclesiastical Insurance’s Regional Director for the North of England, Scotland and Northern Ireland, whom he has worked with for seven years.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/francis-carroll-acii-a6a04528 

Adrian Tate is Ecclesiastical’s Regional Director for Central and Southwest England. He has 31 years of experience in the industry, specialising in commercial insurance.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/adrian-tate-06aba524 

Robert Lloyd is the Regional Director of Ecclesiastical for London and Southeast England. Having previously worked as the General Manager for Aspen Insurance, he has a wealth of experience across a range of specialisms.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/robert-lloyd-340290197 

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. Boston Tullis works with insurance brokers to offer solutions to business development ceilings, particularly in the rapidly developing fields of video marketing and thought leadership.

If you would like Sarah to help you develop an integrated marketing strategy, using state of the art concepts, then please book a free 20 min call via Calendly.

 Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/ 

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation 

072: The curve and how to stay ahead with Patrick Brice

Are you concerned about staying ahead of the curve as many industries become increasingly oriented towards online products and productivity? Do you feel unsure about how to keep yourselves and your clients informed as new cyber-risks perpetually emerge?

In this week’s episode, we’re thrilled to be speaking with Patrick Brice, the Distribution Director at CFC Underwriting, a specialist commercial insurance provider with a keen interest in identifying emerging risks and identifying cyber threats. In conversation with Boston Tullis’ Sarah Myerscough, he elucidates that many businesses and industries are becoming increasingly reliant upon technology for their internal operation and in the distribution of their products. Consequently, brokers and insurers alike need to reorient themselves in order to accommodate clients against both potential cyber threats, and nuanced technological risks that require bespoke cover.

 

Quote of the Episode

‘The insurance industry builds products that the insurance industry thinks are good; they don’t build products that clients want to buy, until you get to the really bespoke, large, sophisticated, complex buyer stuff.’

In this week’s episode, the concept of ‘nimbility’ once again proves efficacious. Patrick Brice argues that there is a tendency among many insurers to undertake a ‘one-size-fits-all’ approach with their products. However, as businesses in different sectors are beginning to embrace technology and cyberspace in nuanced and unique ways, they are becoming vulnerable to risks which require a more bespoke form of policy. The vague, nondescript concept of ‘putting the buyer at the centre’ of insurance products is simply insufficient as industries are evolving at an increasingly rapid pace, and require policies that can accommodate for this.

Key Takeaways

Patrick argues that both brokers and insurers need to immerse themselves within the particular sectors or businesses they are providing cover for, in order to truly understand them and the risks they may face to design and distribute products that will effectively mitigate both present risks and emergent or potential risks. This need not necessarily mean that all brokers and insurers must become specialists. Rather, at the very least, they should endeavour to engage in conversations with experts working within the sectors they provide cover for, to ensure that they have a comprehensive understanding of what clients currently need, and may require in years to come.

For example, Patrick gives the example of ‘digital healthcare’. As the healthcare sector begins to incorporate new technology and software, such as remote surgery and robotic surgery, new insurance products are required to account for the potential risks that may accompany them. However, such risks are not yet catered for by conventional insurance products.

Furthermore, in order to create a profile of what clients need, and to identify if they may be susceptible to new risks, insurers and brokers can endeavour to build a digital profile of their clients using an array of available data sources at their disposal. For example, CFC Underwriting employs its own internally accumulated data, in conjunction with publicly available and third-party information in order to inform its underwriting processes. As such, the client will receive a policy which is more acutely tailored to their needs, and which recognises the potential risks they may face.

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

“So, using that technology, and making that really efficient, but removing the onus on the client to provide a whole load of information… means that we can make that process really, really smooth and efficient, and they can focus on running their business and managing the exposures.”

“SME insurance is designed by insurers without really thinking about what the client wants, or at least it generally is across the board. So, if you're an SME buyer, an SME company that's moving in that either the digital space or in the social media space, it's really difficult to find insurance that meets your needs, it just doesn't fit the kind of exposures that you've got, and doesn't allow you to build the business in the way that you want to.”

‘A product that you launch now will be irrelevant in 12 months’ time at the kind of pace of technological change that we've got.’

“We think that ability to get direct to the client with that really critical information, and keep scanning the client’s information on a real-time basis adds some real value. So, we'd expect to see that expand across multiple product lines and find different ways to build that kind of trusted contact point with the client as we move forward.”

 

Resources

The Lazarus Heist Podcast: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads 

Coffee, Calm & Connection Episode 22, How would you feel about ‘opening up’ to a robot? The Rise of AI-Led Counselling with Dr Gregory Warwick: https://coffeecalmconnection.podbean.com/e/how-would-you-feel-about-opening-up-to-a-robot-the-rise-of-ai-led-counselling-with-dr-gregory-warwick/ 

Solve For Happy: Engineer Your Path to Joy by Mo Gawdat, former Chief Business Officer at GoogleX

 

About the Guest

Patrick Brice is the Distribution Director at CFC Underwriting, where he has worked for six and a half years. Prior to that, he worked for RSA Group for 16 years in various different roles, including Marine Underwriting and Development Manager, Strategic Relationships Director and Professional and Financial Risks Director.

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. Boston Tullis works with insurance brokers to offer solutions to business development ceilings, particularly in the rapidly developing fields of video marketing and thought leadership.

Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/ 

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation 

 

071: The future‘s bright if your a specialist with Chris Withers, Ecclesiastical

Are you unsure as to what kind of broker you are, or wish to be? Do you have a vague understanding of where your interests lie, and wish to reorient yourself and/or your business towards them? Are you interested to learn the various benefits and potential pitfalls of being a generalist or a specialist broker?

In this episode, we’re thrilled to be speaking with Chris Withers, the Broker Distribution Director for Ecclesiastical Insurance, about the firm’s recent research into broker specialism and generalism. The recently published whitepaper identifies four key broker personas, distinguished by their inclination towards specialist or generalist tendencies. In conversation with Boston Tullis’ Sarah Myerscough, Chris explains the findings of the study and identifies the advantages and pitfalls of each broker persona type, culminating in a fascinating discussion about how the broking market will evolve in years to come.

 

Quote of the Episode

‘The future’s bright if you’re a specialist.’

This notion concludes Ecclesiastical’s research report, composed after the initial survey and a series of roundtable discussions featuring brokers across the generalist-specialist spectrum. This suggests that there is a significant benefit to the particular market knowledge which specialism entails, and that this will prove increasingly fruitful as the market develops over the next few years. That being said, the very nature of specialism and generalism appears to be evolving. As Chris notes in the episode, broker consolidation is a rapidly growing part of the industry. Specialist brokers who have a particular niche within the market may soon find themselves as part of a major distributor, who may present themselves as a generalist provider with pockets of specialism. Thus, generalism is by no means a drawback, but incorporating elements of specialism into your firm, or developing a few particular niches as an individual broker may ultimately prove advantageous.

 

Key Takeaways

Chris Withers outlines the following broker persona types throughout the episode:

1. The Pure Specialist

• This type of broker prioritises the industry they specialise in above the provision of insurance solutions. They typically worked in that particular sector first, and then began to work in specialist insurance. As such, they are equipped with detailed market knowledge, and are often conducting their own market scanning.
• They will typically have an understanding of the challenges they may face when presented with various clients’ risks, facilitating trust between themselves and the client/insurer, and leading to smooth communication between all parties.

2. The Intentional Hybrid

• This approach is typically more identifiable in broking firms than individuals.
• They thrive on adaptability; if they see an opportunity to specialise in a particular area in the market, they will do so.
• While the Pure Specialist has an understanding of and interest in the market before the risk is presented, the Intentional Hybrid will use the specialist capabilities of the insurer to back up their own developing specialism(s).
• This persona type creates a multiplicity of options for growth and expansion, but can this principle necessarily be upscaled? Can such a firm survive in competition with others who can provide solutions without as much handholding from the insurer?

3. The Connected General Practitioner

• This broker type operates in a similar fashion to a medical GP. They are highly connected with specialist insurers, whom they will contact after assessing a client’s risk.
• They don’t necessarily try to build the capability for specialism within their own business, acting as a mediator to specialist insurers while retaining a more generalist approach themselves.
• They see broking itself as their specialism rather than the client’s needs.

4. The Organic Generalist

• This broker type is deeply concerned with the scalability of specialising.
• They are more likely to be trained in insurance first and forehand.
• Their specialism is insurance placement and managing and identifying insurance risk, rather than the client’s or a specific sector’s needs.
• They will deliberately avoid building specialist capabilities within their business.

Ultimately, there is no right or wrong personality type – each of them has a value and a powerful contribution to offer to the industry. This research is by no means conclusive or definitive, and indeed there may be other persona types prevalent within the market, or some of those outlined above could be fused together.

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

“[The Pure Specialist is] completely immersed in whatever it is that they have chosen as their specialism. It is their passion, as well as their career. They are usually quite disruptive, actually, because they don't want to settle for the status quo. They don't want to come up with a solution everyone else has got, they want to be ahead of the game.”

 

“One of the big findings of our research was that differentiation was a big reason as to why brokers would choose a specialism, so the Intentional Hybrid sees that and has the ability to have specialist areas within their general broking business.”

 

“The General Practitioner certainly doesn't shy away from specialism. But they don't pretend to be anything that they're not either. So, the GP is well connected, in terms of specialist suppliers, and invariably specialist insurers that they can bring in, they deliberately seek out these opportunities, but they don't try to build that capability themselves within their business.”

 

“The Organic Generalist is proud of the fact that they're a generalist. And the specialism for them is insurance placement, and managing and identifying insurance risk.”

 

Resources

Ecclesiastical’s Whitepaper Report: https://ecclesiastical.com/documents/broker-specialist-roundtable-research.pdf

 

About the Guest

Chris Withers is the Broker Distribution Director for Ecclesiastical Insurance. He has over 25 years of experience in the industry, having previously worked for Covea and RSA.

Chris’ LinkedIn Profile: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/chris-withers-ab77761b 

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. Boston Tullis works with insurance brokers to offer solutions to business development ceilings, particularly in the rapidly developing fields of video marketing and thought leadership.

If you would like Sarah to help you develop an integrated marketing strategy, using state of the art concepts, then please book a free 20 min call via Calendly.

 Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/ 

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation 

 

070: Mental Health within the Insurance Broker market with Adrian Saunders, Commercial Director of Ecclesiastical Insurance

Good mental health is essential to our general wellbeing. Depending on how we manage it, it can be highly conducive, or deeply destructive to our productive output. As we gradually approach the aftermath of a world-changing pandemic, incorporating such awareness into the workplace, and indeed, all areas of our lives, has never been more urgent.

In this special hybrid episode, the worlds of the Insurance Brokers Podcast and Coffee, Calm & Connection merge. We are delighted to be speaking with Adrian Saunders, Commercial Director of Ecclesiastical Insurance, which recently conducted its annual survey regarding mental health within the insurance broker market. In conversation with Boston Tullis’ Sarah Myerscough, he discusses the often-surprising results of the survey, which suggest that while considerable strides have been made towards boosting mental health awareness and support at work, there remains progress to be made.

 

Quote of the Episode

“If, as most people have been doing, they've been working remotely, perhaps there's that sense of detachment where they don't feel able [to talk about mental health] … There's no observation going on. So, you know, there's probably less of managers actually seeing their teams, and seeing individuals, or being able to pick up any upon any signs, or just asking that question: ‘Are you okay?’”

The experience of the pandemic completely shattered the way in which we work, our general sense of separation between our public and private lives, and the way we engage with others. In forcing us apart for so long, it could be argued that the pandemic eroded much of the progress being made towards greater mental health awareness and support within the workplace. The artificiality of a digital environment with which many of us were forced to acclimatise in order to continue working, while highly productive for some, left others feeling dejected and struggling to cope. Therefore, it is crucial that we understand the profound importance of providing mental health support in the workplace as we emerge from the chaos of multiple lockdowns, and enter 2022.

 

Key Takeaways

‘Less than half of people [now] feel comfortable talking about mental health in the workplace, whereas, back in 2019, it was actually really pretty high… three quarters of people felt comfortable.”

Since 2019, Ecclesiastical Insurance has annually conducted a survey in order to identify general sentiments towards mental health within the insurance broker market, namely:

• How are people feeling?
• What are the causes of any mental health issues?
• How supported do brokers feel?
• How comfortable are they in talking about mental health at work?

Several intriguing comparisons can be made between this year’s results and of those from 2019, pre-pandemic. A particularly concerning trend noted by Adrian in the episode was a significant drop in colleagues feeling comfortable with discussing mental health in the workplace, despite awareness of it and the provision of support for it reportedly increasing profoundly. Adrian suggests that this could be a result of remote working, due to which it isn’t necessarily as easy to share one’s private thoughts and feelings with a trusted colleague. Perhaps, also, this could be attributed to the pandemic, and our unanimous recognition that someone, somewhere, must have it worse than us, and therefore we may find our own problems folly or insignificant. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Everyone has problems, and they are all important and worth discussing with people you can trust. Therefore, we should endeavour to double down in our efforts to make the workplace a safe environment for employees to share their mental health woes, and from which they can receive valuable and meaningful support and advice.

An additional problem highlighted by the survey was stress being at an all-time high among brokers. This could arguably be caused by our increased inability to separate work from our personal lives.  They have become deeply intertwined, perhaps irreversibly, particularly given the extent to which working from home has continued to prosper even as COVID regulations have relaxed in recent months.

Adrian and Ecclesiastical’s UK intermediary leadership team have just completed their Mental Health First Aid training. If you would be interested in undergoing similar training, Adrian encourages brokers to speak with their account manager about it, or indeed to reach out to him directly.

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

“A really worrying trend that came through this time is quite a significant drop in individuals feeling able to talk about mental health issues in the workplace, especially being able to talk about it with their line manager. So, you've got this really interesting thing going on. The businesses are providing more support, there is more awareness. But at an individual level, people are feeling less able to actually talk about it. And when I say a drop, I don't mean just a few percentage points… it's almost a third of a drop since we started the survey in 2019.”

“Myself and the intermediary leadership team in the UK, have all just completed our Mental Health First Aid training. And I think that's really important… If it means that we have one more conversation, or one better conversation, or somebody feels more able to come to any one of us to start that conversation, [then] that has been worth it.”

 

Resources

Ecclesiastical Insurance – Adrian Saunders’ ‘About’ page: https://www.ecclesiastical.com/bios/adrian-saunders/

Ecclesiastical Insurance – Mental Health and Wellbeing Insights: https://www.ecclesiastical.com/insights/mental-health/

Ecclesiastical Insurance – ‘Work-related mental health issues for brokers are at their highest-ever recorded levels’: https://www.ecclesiastical.com/insights/broker-mental-health/

Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus: A Practical Guide for Improving Communication and Getting What You Want in Your Relationships by John Gray

 

About the Guest

Adrian Saunders is the Commercial Director of Ecclesiastical Insurance. He’s worked in both the company and broker markets, and specialises in developing new enterprises within organisations, and re-engineering existing processes to develop strategy and increase ROL.

Connect with the Guest:

Adrian Saunders | LinkedIn

Specialist Insurance & Financial Services | Ecclesiastical

Ecclesiastical Insurance Group: Overview | LinkedIn

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. Boston Tullis works with insurance brokers to offer solutions to business development ceilings, particularly in the rapidly developing fields of video marketing and thought leadership.

If you would like Sarah to help you develop an integrated marketing strategy, using state of the art concepts, then please book a free 20 min call via Calendly.

 Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/ 

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation 

069: The importance off curating an easy straightforward customer journey with Henry Newby - Superscript

Things are changing in the world of insurance. What can you do to stay ahead of the curve? How can you adapt your business in order to acclimatise to this new landscape, which has been changed forever by big tech companies such as Amazon and Google?

In this episode, we’re thrilled to be speaking with Henry Newby, the Partnerships Director of Superscript, an innovative start-up insurance provider. Superscript recently announced a partnership with Amazon, to provide policies to British SMEs through the Business Prime subscription service. In conversation with Boston Tullis’ Sarah Myerscough, Henry elucidates the significance of simplifying the provision of insurance solutions in accordance with the culture of instant gratification facilitated by the business models of companies like Amazon. He highlights the importance of forming new, mutually beneficial business partnerships with other businesses, with whom you can share data and thereby provide a more streamlined, easily accessible service to your own clients.

 

Quote of the Episode

‘There is value in having a diversified distribution strategy’.

Henry Newby asserts that business partnerships can create an array of new avenues for broadening product availability, and channels for their distribution. He notes that, while Superscript initially developed on a basis of paid acquisition, forming partnerships with businesses such as Amazon enabled the company to substantially expand its provision of quality cover, and to provide more nuanced solutions.  A particular area which substantially boosted Superscript’s distribution strategy is in its formation of partnerships with companies with data assets, which can be harnessed in order to actively support clients by ensuring that they always have the best possible cover.

 

Key Takeaways

Throughout the episode, Henry repeatedly emphasises the importance of curating an easy, straightforward customer journey. A key means of doing so, he suggests, is by employing publicly available information about potential clients’ businesses in order to eliminate the need for them to manually input such information.

This principle of streamlining and digitising the quote journey will become increasingly important in years to come. Superscript’s partnership with Amazon permits it, and other companies with similar agreements, to access the data which the tech giant holds about customers, and to use it to pre-fill certain fields within the quote journey.

This underpins the importance of nimbility, which is once again the word of the week on the Insurance Broker’s Podcast. Insurers must aim to be flexible in their provision of cover, and in the ways with which they engage with clients, in order to stay ahead of the curve.

A key means of doing so, Henry suggests, is to maintain a more consistent engagement with clients, but in a less arduous fashion than that which accompanies traditional quote journeys and renewal dates. The subscription model of Superscript is simple and automatic, following the same monthly payment principle of many services used by households across the country, such as Netflix , Spotify, or indeed Amazon itself. In doing so, there is both a more consistent dialogue with clients, and the ability to provide them with insight into the continued suitability of their cover, or lack thereof.

 

Best Moments/Key Quotes

“What Amazon are looking to do is to acquire more businesses to their business prime proposition that it operates as a as a monthly subscription model… Once they've acquired those customers, obviously, they're looking to retain them over the longer term.”

‘We're able to effectively access some of the data that Amazon already holds about that customer and use that to pre fill certain fields within the quote journey itself’.

‘You can see that the cogs changing, you can see the moves going in the direction that you guys are going [towards].’

“We're looking to work with partners who are residing on data assets that we can utilise to improve the customer experience to inform product development, to enhance our pricing and underwriting capability, and also actually to support customers in terms of the ongoing management of their policies with us.”

“We actually think that regular engagement with our customers is a good thing, not a bad thing. And part of that is actually about supporting them on an ongoing basis.”

 

Resources

The Future of Insurance: From Disruption to Evolution by Bryan Falchuk

The Second Curve: Thoughts on Reinventing Society by Charles Handy

 

About the Guest

Prior to joining Superscript in 2018, of which he is the Partnerships Director, Henry Newby had 25 years of experience with working for large multinational insurance organisations. He previously worked as the Business Development Director for AXA UK for ten years, and spent 11 years in various roles at AON Warranty Group.

Henry’s LinkedIn page: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/henry-newby-83756b2

 

About the Host

Sarah Myerscough is the Sales and Marketing Director of Boston Tullis Group. The founder of The Insurance Brokers Podcast, she brings a wealth of marketing experience and a fresh perspective on marketing in the insurance sector. Boston Tullis works with insurance brokers to offer solutions to business development ceilings, particularly in the rapidly developing fields of video marketing and thought leadership.

If you would like Sarah to help you develop an integrated marketing strategy, using state of the art concepts, then please book a free 20 min call via Calendly.

 Website: https://bostontullis.co.uk/ 

Evaluation Link: https://s.bostontullis.co.uk/s/podcastevaluation